Raw America managing editor Carl Gibson sat down with Lev Parnas — former Rudy Giuliani associate, convicted felon and now independent congressional candidate in Florida — for an expansive interview covering what may be the most explosive political story of the year: credible sourcing suggesting that President Donald Trump’s Department of Justice is planning to indict former President Barack Obama.
Parnas, who has deep personal ties to many of the key players inside Trump’s orbit, also opened up about the DOJ’s latest harassment campaign against E. Jean Carroll, the weaponization of a Fort Pierce grand jury under Trump-appointed U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon and his decision to leave the Democratic Party and run for Congress as an independent.
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The E. Jean Carroll Investigation: “A Trophy Win for Trump”
Gibson opened by asking Parnas about his recent Substack post, in which he wrote that the Trump DOJ’s criminal investigation into writer E. Jean Carroll — who won two civil cases against Trump in 2023 and 2024 — was “only the beginning.” Parnas framed the Carroll prosecution as a political gift from Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche to Trump himself.
“The E. Jean Carroll investigation is very important, and it means a lot, because knowing Donald Trump, knowing the players involved, especially his puppet, now Todd Blanche in the DOJ — this was more of a trophy win for Donald Trump, you know, by Todd Blanche gifting him E. Jean Carroll,” Parnas said.
Gibson noted that Blanche, Trump’s former personal criminal defense attorney, had technically recused himself from the Carroll case. However, because Blanche is the de facto head of the DOJ, Parnas dismissed his recusal as “theatrics.”
“That’s what the Trump DOJ is about right now,” he said. “That’s why I always say, don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do, watch their actions.”
Trump Planning to Indict Barack Obama in Florida
The conversation shifted to what Parnas described as the centerpiece of Trump’s revenge campaign: a grand jury quietly assembled in Fort Pierce, Florida overseen by U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon — the same Trump-appointed judge who threw out Trump’s classified documents case.
According to Parnas, one of Todd Blanche’s first moves upon taking over the DOJ was to reopen a long-dormant investigation into former CIA Director John Brennan and the origins of the Russia investigation, then move that probe to Fort Pierce, where Cannon sits as the lone judge. Blanche also appointed former U.S. Attorney Joseph DiGenova — who helmed the DOJ’s District of Columbia office during the Reagan administration — as special prosecutor. Parnas observed that he knows DiGenova well as his former personal lawyer.
“There is a grand jury that has been put together. There’s already, I’ve heard, hundreds of subpoenas that have gone out to ex-CIA agents and people that were part of the 2015-16 administration,” Parnas said. “And what I’m hearing is that one of the main targets that they’re going to be going after and that they’re going to indict is going to be ex-President Obama.”
Parnas said DiGenova’s appointment is significant, describing him as someone who has long been consumed by his belief that figures like Brennan, James Comey, and Obama committed treason by investigating Trump.
“Out of everybody that I know in Trump world, he’s the most passionate and the most aggressive,” Parnas said.
Could Presidential Immunity Shield Obama?
Gibson raised the question of whether the Supreme Court’s 2024 ruling in Trump v. United States — which established broad criminal immunity for presidents for any and all official acts — could be used by Obama’s lawyers to get any indictment thrown out before it ever went to trial.
Parnas acknowledged the argument, but said Trump insiders are deliberately gaming it out to put Trump’s predecessor through the same gauntlet Trump himself endured during his 2024 campaign.
“They want Obama to go prove that this was an official act. Obama has to go there, go through the process,” Parnas said. they want Obama to go through what Trump did, get indicted, get that mug shot.”
He also pointed out that the Fort Pierce venue is no accident. Routing the case through Cannon’s courtroom all but guarantees a friendly judicial hand, regardless of any current legal precedent.
“That’s why the case is in Fort Pierce, because it would be Judge Cannon on that case if Obama gets indicted in Florida,” Parnas said.
Judge Cannon’s Impossible Bind
Gibson pressed Parnas on what he sees as a legal catch-22 for Cannon: the very precedent she used to dismiss Trump’s documents case (in which she cited Clarence Thomas’ opinion in the Trump v. United States decision to justify throwing out the charges) could now be weaponized by Obama’s defense team. Parnas dismissed the idea that Cannon would feel constrained by her own prior ruling.
“A lot of people that come on these shows talk about how things used to be, how things should be, how in a normal society it would be. They keep forgetting that Donald Trump, and especially loyalists like Judge Cannon, don’t follow the rules,” he said. “That is why we are here. She will just say no, find an excuse, and this is what they’re good at.”
He also flagged the role of Stephen Miller, whom he described as the most dangerous figure operating behind the scenes, as the person who excels at finding obscure legal loopholes to justify whatever outcome Trump needs.
“It’s not if they’re gonna do it, it’s when they’re gonna do it. You’re gonna see lots of these indictments. I don’t say it unless I know it — and when I come out and say it, I pretty much know it,” Parnas argued.
The DOJ’s Credibility Crisis — And Why Trump Doesn’t Care
Gibson noted a string of high-profile DOJ failures — a botched Comey prosecution led by an inexperienced attorney, the collapsed Leticia James case, and the Carroll inquiry against someone who has already prevailed before two separate juries — and asked whether Blanche and Trump were worried at all about the damage being done to the institution’s reputation.
Parnas said the answer is simply that the DOJ’s credibility is irrelevant in a system oriented entirely around pleasing one man.
“Todd Blanche doesn’t care about what anybody’s saying right now. It’s such a cult mentality. Right now it’s one leader, one man, and trying to figure out how to please him and nobody else,” Parnas said. “We’re living in an authoritarian time. We’re living in a dictatorship. A lot of people don’t realize it. The system is cracking — it’s like a dam. If you have a little crack and the water keeps pushing, eventually it’s going to break.”
Why Parnas Left the Democratic Party
Gibson noted that Ballotpedia still listed Parnas as one of five Democrats running in Florida’s 27th congressional district, prompting Parnas to correct the record: he is now running as an independent.
Parnas described the decision as a product of both frustration with Democratic establishment politics and a practical read of the electorate. He recounted attending a MAGA event in his district, where residents responded warmly to him until they learned he was running as a Democrat.
“When I was there as an individual, they loved to hear what I had to say and wanted to know more. But once I got labeled as a Democrat, all of that went out the window,” he said.
He also pointed to a larger structural reality: nearly half the country now identifies as independent.
“They don’t want to be either Democrat or Republican, because both parties got us here,” Parnas said. “Both parties have become radicalized. Donald Trump instilled division into us — we have to stop that.”
Running as an Independent: Spoiler or Disruptor?
Gibson asked the obvious question: in a first-past-the-post system, doesn’t an independent candidacy risk splitting the anti-Republican vote and handing the seat to the GOP?
Parnas pushed back, noting that Florida’s 27th Congressional District is currently drawn to disadvantage Democrats anyway, and that he believes he can pull more from the Republican side than the Democratic side. He also said he is eyeing the 22nd district — where several Republicans are competing with no Democratic presence — as a potentially stronger opportunity.
“I’m not changing my values. I’m running as an independent to get into Congress so Congress can change the laws … so a president could be able to run without being committed to be labeled a D or an R,” he said.
After Gibson pressed Parnas on how he would caucus, Parnas emphasized he would caucus with Democrats but would not be a reliable party-line vote.
“I’m going in there more to root out both of the problems we have, because the biggest problem we have in Congress is not Democrat or Republican. It’s that we have foreign money that has infiltrated our lobbying system, our super PACs, our special interests, and these are the people that are really running our Congress,” he said.
Parnas’ Firsthand Knowledge of Funneling Foreign Money Into Elections
Gibson brought up Parnas’s 2022 sentencing announcement, in which then-U.S. Attorney Damian Williams said Parnas was going to prison for 20 months for “pumping Russian money into U.S. elections and lying about the source of funds for political contributions.” Parnas acknowledged his wrongdoing, but said his firsthand experience inside the super PAC system makes him uniquely qualified to fight it from the inside.
“I take full responsibility for my actions,” Parnas said. “But I donated money to a Trump super PAC. The Trump super PAC did not get indicted, just so you understand. I got indicted.”
He said he watched firsthand how the campaign finance system was exploited by both parties.
“I know how the system works. It doesn’t matter if you’re Republican or Democrat, it works the same. They both do it,” Parnas said. “One of my main platforms is to try to destroy the super PACs and special interests and bring our country back to where each vote matters.”
Parnas Announces New Project Aimed at Digging Into Epstein Files
Gibson raised the question of how Parnas plans to hold people named in the Epstein files accountable not just for child sex trafficking but for financial crimes described in the documents.
Parnas used the question to unveil a significant new venture: a media and advocacy organization called Deep State Media, formed in partnership with Jonathan Hay (publicly identified as a plaintiff in the civil case against Sean “Diddy” Combs), activist David Sugerman, and Parnas’ son Daniel.
“Deep State Media is going to be set up to go out to fight corruption, to stand for survivors, and to stop this attack on women’s rights,” Parnas said. “The P. Diddys, the Epsteins, the Weinsteins, they not only treated women the way they did, but the business was also intertwined.”
Parnas said a signature feature of the venture will be fully livestreamed transparency for his congressional campaign.
“Every meeting will be livestreamed,” he said. “There’s no more closed-door, behind-the-scenes meetings. There are no more private conversations. My campaign is going to be run on pure, pure transparency, because that’s what we need. Enough is enough.”
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